Salary

[lenny]

Hi,

How much would a general plumber be expected to earn (outside of London) for a 40-50 hr week?

thanks

Len

 

[quality]

Training company view 40 to 50 Thousand
Real world 20 Max
ps I am no training company

 

[tamz]

£11 - 12 / hr if you are lucky.

 

[PlumbBobBob]

thats if you can get 40-50 hours a week

steve

 

[fuzzy]

average £10 an hour - 50 hours = £500 per week, if you worked that for 50 weeks per year £25k, dont look so great when you work it out.
then take off your outgoings if you work for yourself

 

[lenny]

Is it really this bad ?

 

[WaterTight]

I'm not convinced anyone really knows. Wages working for a company are fairly common knowledge but who really knows what the average self-employed bloke earns? It must vary loads. I've worked for several who earn quite a lot. One is very open about amounts made, the other I just worked it out from observation. They're established and have paid attention to the business side. I'm sure there's lots of plumbers sitting on their backsides moaning that there's no work out there, not advertising properly, not looking after their customers and not earning much. So an average......who knows. I suppose 25k sounds about right.

 

[fuzzy]

£500 a week sounds good until you break it down, even £750 when you take away holidays, vans etc etc aint that good

 

[ComfortHeating]

I work in London as a plumber and heating engineer running complex high end resident/light commercial jobs and make £150 a day as a subby no van provided. Does this sound like a fair wage?

 

[nysk2008]

are u gs comfort heating? Only reason I ask is that I live in SE london and a few firms are offer half decent doh for maintainance and service guys.

 

[Rossi46]

50k for 50 hours a week is about right imo if you are good at what u do. Plus van, tools, holiday etc etc.

Course cowboys and 6 week plumbers arent worth 10k

 

[Captainflood]

In Scotland the common salary Ive seen recently for an advanced plumber is £24.5k

 

[armourer]

Employed heating engineer in the Midlands (eg van uniform etc provided) approx £25000-£30000.
Self employed £40000+

 

[WaterTight]

which, when you take off his expenses, means he earns roughly the same.

 

[Deleted member 25704]

The first job out of my time in 1986, I earned £8.50 an hour as a 715 working subcontract to a builder. Started pricing for jobs (1980s) and earned £200 a day doing lead-work, at that time you could buy a decent house for about 15k. I did a twenty years stint where customers had to wait on average 3months for a heating installation. My average wage during this time was about 25K a year, for a 40 hour week. Of course you never did a 40 hour week in the past, because there was loads of work, it was more like 50-60 hours a week. Hence plumbers could earn more through working longer hours - this explains the 'rich plumber' tag. Those that have it, have worked hard to get it.

From then to present my wages have fallen drastically, along with continuity of employment. Over-heads have crept up in price - cost of vans, insurance and courses for ACS and gas registration. As work diminishes, advertising and marketing creep up.

In addition, the public have lost trust, and now expect me to come out for nothing, or no call out - which is ridiculus. If a job goes wrong, then customers lose trust - in the past they were more reasonable, and expected jobs to cost more - not any more, if its not fixed for what you quote, then there is trouble.

However, its not the drop in wages that worries me as much as the amout of work available.

It has been said already that £10 per hour, would be ok for a 40hour week. If this is the case, then working craft wages have hardly risen in 25 years, given the cost of living has.

I am surprised that we have not heard more stories of plumbing businesses going bust.

 

[tommytoker]

jeeez, 25k in the 80's must be equiv of 50k nowadays, £200 a day doing lead work..!! were lucky to get that now doing gas work
how come you still working clanger.? i would be sitting in the sun if i were you
i have been self-emp for over 10 years if i had been a plumber/gasman from leaving school (the 80's) i'd be retired by now...

 

[Britlee]

When the site trade was good ( before the recession hit ) i was getting payed £10 an hour on price work, For instances The company would pay me 6hrs to fit a bathroom suite, i could do one in 1hr 30mins so i got £60 for an 1hr 30mins work. Some weeks i was taking home £1300.

 

[core heating]

i charge £28 an hour plus 50p per mile ( if its a non quoted job) although it never works out 8hours a day... average out at 200 a day if quoting i work it out to £260 per man/day

. not gas safe as i told them to stick it.

my main company is mcs and i only install ASHP and underfloor heating. get specialised . you can charge more this way.
if you offer..... taps. bathroom, cooker. fires. radiators, servicing. etc etc it looks jack of all..

underfloor and ashp. simple. . its worked for me this way.

 

[ComfortHeating]

I have my ccn1 and appliances and live in SE16.

 

[tamz]

I have my ccn1 and appliances and live in SE16.

So what are your expectations of a decent wage?

 

[ComfortHeating]

I'd hope to take home atleast 35k a year after Overheads for an honest 40hr week. I have seven years experience working mostly on large luxury plumbing and heating jobs and don't know where to look now that I live in London for a decent paid job.

 

[tamz]

Take home 35K is around 50K at the top. On a 40 hr week you better be good or you have no chance.

 

[ComfortHeating]

I realize that, I just know that I've made more then 30k in sales with no overheads. I just think its crazy that a salesman with no experience and training can out earn a trained skilled professional.

 

[tamz]

Such is the way of the world. I was told many years ago that as soon as you dirty your hands you will never make real money. This is true.
Think of any person who has made it big. They are not manual workers. Even Charlie Mullins never made it big until he threw his tools away.+

50 k is a big expectation that only the very best will achieve.

 

[Deleted member 25704]

jeeez, 25k in the 80's must be equiv of 50k nowadays, £200 a day doing lead work..!! were lucky to get that now doing gas work
how come you still working clanger.? i would be sitting in the sun if i were you
i have been self-emp for over 10 years if i had been a plumber/gasman from leaving school (the 80's) i'd be retired by now...

Its funny how gas work has become the gold standard. During my career, it was just another aspect of being a plumber, along with electrical, oil, lead-work and sanitary pipework. The gas guys and fitters were always paid less than plumbers, which was the same for teaching the subjects in in FE.

It would take me around 2 years to train someone at work, to do lead-work to a 'competent' standard that a decent architect would accept - it would take me a matter of weeks to train someone to get through an ACS practical gas assessment. For central heating contracts, six weeks to train someone to do rads and pipework. The general plumber, takes ten years to achieve master status in England, in Germany its only five.

However, gas fitters would argue that many plumbers who do gas, are not competent, and I think they have a good argument. The same could be said for plumbers that do electrical.

When I think of the amount of work, which was required to make 50K doing plumbing, its collosal, if you are working on the tools. I really enjoyed the job so I was never destined to make loads of money; I don't think you do if you really enjoy what you are doing. But, I think I have been priveleged in being able to land steady work for decades - not so much through my own skill, but because there was hardly anyone doing the job - no competition.

This is no longer the case, because of the economic situation and the influx of people into the trade. I have work diaries covering decades of jobs that came in over the phone, ten or more calls a day. Now I am lucky to get two or three calls a week. Even to make 25K clear, you will have to land stacks of business, see loads of people and write lots of estimates, make calls, order, organise, do, get money in etc.

If I were asked a few years ago what I earned, I would probably have said more than 25K, because generally I think we do - so as not to look like a failure to others. The reality is different, and I wonder how many are actually being accurate with their estimates of what they earn.

 

[ComfortHeating]

I appreciate your advice, sounds like its still a tough market out there. At the moment I still have work coming my way, I currently work in London installing plumbing heating and gas in luxury houses which often require 150-250 days labor. My boss for obvious reasons would like me to give him a price on the next one. How much more would you charge to do it on price?(Labor only) And does anyone know if hbxl is powerful enough to estimate work that big?

 

[AWheating]

When i was directly employed i could earn 40k a year before the credit crunch or whatever you want to call this bleak time. Now i am self employed i have got diddy squat chance of earning anything close to that.

direct plumber is would say £7 to £10 an hour, self employed £80 to £140 a day if you mainly sub to contracted work.

over the years there have been stories of plumbers earning averages of 80k plus in national newspapers, based on what i have no idea. Include the over hyped expected wages advertised by dodgy training centers offering fast track training and many fokes still believe the stories. The truth is as with every other construction trade is that work is hard to find, and wages are low and getting lower. with many experienced tradesmen out of work and on the dole or trying different jobs.

 

[AWheating]

I appreciate your advice, sounds like its still a tough market out there. At the moment I still have work coming my way, I currently work in London installing plumbing heating and gas in luxury houses which often require 150-250 days labor. My boss for obvious reasons would like me to give him a price on the next one. How much more would you charge to do it on price?(Labor only) And does anyone know if hbxl is powerful enough to estimate work that big?

hbxl can be downloaded on a trial i think, give it a try and let us know how it goes.

it sounds to me that the sort of work you are doing would be extreemly hard to price the labour for to work on a price as you have to rely on the whole job running to programe and no major problems.

 

[Deleted member 25704]

I have had jobs where customers have asked for a price, then decided to let me do day-work. The problem is that the price only benefits the manager or who you are working for. There is nothing to be gained for the plumber, by pricing a job, that the customer wants done 'labour only'.

When the job finishes, they may hold back wages if the price you quoted it could be done for, is less than what is expected to be paid for day-work.

If someone is employing you for 'labour only' it usually means the job is being managed, and hence its their problem to cost labour, not yours.

From experience, those that want you to do work 'labour only' don't want the plumber or any worker making a profit - heaven forbid...a profit.

 

[ComfortHeating]

Essentially I am a plumber and heating engineer who works as a subcontractor for a larger plumbing company and for that reason I do not buy the material.(hence labor only) My boss would like me to remove a little bit of his risk on the job and give him a fixed price. Would you say an extra 10 percent over run plus an extra 10 percent margin on top of what I charge for my day rate would be fair?

 

[Deleted member 25704]

No, its his problem as the main contractor - the contract rates will have already been priced through the Bill of quants.

But its tricky - you as the plumber do not want to earn any less, but he seems to want a better deal. The fact he has asked for this, implies that he may have another estimate, in which case he thinks there are savings to be made.

Hence, if your profit margin is too high, then you will lose the job. The motive of the main contractor may also be associated with cash flow - priced jobs are paid in stages, so he can make you wait for money. Day rate is paid weekly or monthly at most.

Its too dodgy these days to wait for any money, and I would be inclined to communicate this - say your happy with the way things are. If this is not good enough, then ask about the payments and when they will be made - if this is in stages, and you need the work - then put in a price based on your labour + 10% + retention%, and leave an apprentice on the job. The gov will pay you for the apprentice as well.

You may also be subject to retentions, so allow for this in your margin.

 

[tamz]

Your boss isn't asking you for a price to allow you to make more money. Whatever you are making atm for a completed job he would be probably be looking for a reduction on.
Say you take 2 weeks to do the job at an average of £200 a day = £2000 labour. It is unlikely for him to agree on more than that.
The only way you can make more is to speed up. Do it in 8 days and your day rate is £250.
Get a particularly awkward job that runs to 12 days and your rate drops to £166.

He is looking for a fixed price that removes any risk and extra costs from him.


Clanger is giving good advice.

 

[fuzzy]

i worked for a company that priced either day works ir by the hour or put in a price

when we had a job of swapping a rad say coz it was leaking they would ask for a price, my boss would say its cheper for us to charge you by the hour, they never trust anyone and want an upfront price. he would always cover his losses in case the job ran over, so a 5 hour job would be priced on 8, if we did it in 4 we were quids in, if we hit a problem we were not out of pocket.

had we dont it on an hourly rate although more per hour they only pay for what we did, despite advising people they still wanted a price, even customers who knew us. even clerks for council work etc would tell them to gwt job done and price after but rarely did

 

[stevetheplumber]

250 days no wonder he wants you on price i could plumb a big hotel for that

 

[ComfortHeating]

Appreciate the advice, I wanted to use one large price job as an opportunity to get out of subcontracting and into operating as a ltd company. Buying me the time essentially to build more of my own clientele. Sounds like it may be to much of a high risk strategy.