Regulation issue

[Marty92]

Hi folks,

I am quoting to fit a replacement boiler in a commercial premises, The. client tells me 3 other plumbers have told him its a requirement to also chang the HW tank now I've searched everywhere and I cannot find a requirement to do this additional work.

The tank is old and uninsulated so changing it is a good idea but a requirement - I don't think so?

thoughts please

 

[SimonG]

Could it to be with going to fully pumped? Does the old cylinder have a coil?

 

[SafeGasInstall]

Welcome to the forum

I would say , if you were going to change then it must be changed to energy efficient one . What sort of boiler is to be fitted and what size hot water cylinder is there ?

 

[dancinplumba]

Its a requirement in domestic premises for energy saving purposes

 

[Marty92]

Its a requirement in domestic premises for energy saving purposes

Really, where is that written?

 

[Barry98]

Every where

 

[Marty92]

Welcome to the forum

I would say , if you were going to change then it must be changed to energy efficient one . What sort of boiler is to be fitted and what size hot water cylinder is there ?

Cheers pal!

Yes I quite agree but I'm not sure there is an actual requirement to change it just because its not up to modern standards.

looks like its going to be a valiant ecotec 65 existing vented tank is c 120l

 

[dancinplumba]

As an installer you should know these things

 

[Marty92]

Every where

So it is actually stated that "when replacing a boiler/primary heating source you MUST replace the Hot water tank with one meeting the latest requirements in energy efficiency" ?

 

[Marty92]

As an installer you should know these things

Quite but is it now wrong to check?

 

[dancinplumba]

So it is actually stated that "when replacing a boiler/primary heating source you MUST replace the Hot water tank with one meeting the latest requirements in energy efficiency" ?

To comply, correct

 

[Marty92]

To comply, correct

Ok regulation number please I need to read that.

 

[dancinplumba]

Lol are you an installer ?

 

[Marty92]

Lol are you an installer ?

Yes, do you have an actual regulation / requirement or are you just spouting what you have been told?

 

[SimonG]

Building regs energy efficiency requirements

 

[dancinplumba]

Yes, do you have an actual regulation / requirement or are you just spouting what you have been told?

Haha you should know

 

[Barry98]

Yes, do you have an actual regulation / requirement or are you just spouting what you have been told?

Easy tiger

 

[dancinplumba]

Building regs energy efficiency requirements

But which one ? ))

 

[Marty92]

The trouble with questions like mine is no one seems able to point to an actual regulation or requirement, I don't doubt you believe what you say but so many people in our industry do not actually know where to look to find out if something is a requirement / regulation or good practice and there is a whole heep of difference.


Befor I tell a client " Thou shall" I need to be able to point to why / where and at the moment there's nowhere to look which is actually law.

I can find nothing in part L of the building regs requiring me to upgrade a tank in premises below 1000m2 and even then it needs to be commercially viable.

 

[Marty92]

But which one ? ))

I surmised he was pointing to L1b in your point

 

[dancinplumba]

You know more than we do

 

[SafeGasInstall]

Its hard as its to convince customers to have TRV fitted let alone new cylinders or zoning upstairs and downstairs , so dont go hard on your customers . If not it just looks to them that I/you/we are trying to sell them more than they need ......

 

[Marty92]

You know more than we do

Unfortunatly you seem to be proving you don't know where to look to backup you claim, I don't particularly mind if you do or don't to be honest, but I hope for your sake you can back up your claims if you have too.

Most of my clients are legal firms in the city, I'm sure as hell going to make sure I don't write something in a tender document I cannot backup with regulation.

Dont fall in to the trap of doing something because someone told you too - it may cost you.

 

[Marty92]

Its hard as its to convince customers to have TRV fitted let alone new cylinders or zoning upstairs and downstairs , so dont go hard on your customers . If not it just looks to them that I/you/we are trying to sell them more than they need ......

Very true - according to the HHIC, TRV's are not a requirement when changing boilers.

I generally ask clients what they want and if regs don't prohibit it - they get it.

 

[SafeGasInstall]

Unfortunatly you seem to be proving you don't know where to look to backup you claim, I don't particularly mind if you do or don't to be honest, but I hope for your sake you can back up your claims if you have too.

Most of my clients are legal firms in the city, I'm sure as hell going to make sure I don't write something in a tender document I cannot backup with regulation.

Dont fall in to the trap of doing something because someone told you too - it may cost you.

just take it easy ..... we are here helping each-other

if you keep posting like this , you will be deleted by the moderators

just keep calm and enjoy the help you get and the help you give

stan

 

[Marty92]

I'm relaxed Stan. some people seem to think its acceptable to slate others for asking questions, yet when asked to back up their claims with evidence they cannot, I don't mind it's just not very helpful is it.

Ive got qualifications and professional registrations coming out of my earholes but that doesn't mean I know everything or even should know everything.

 

[AlexGas]

Get your head around Energy Efficiency Best Practice...

 

[jtsplumbing]

We all know what we should be doing to comply with the regs, but at the end of the day its what the customer can afford, work is hard enough to get hold of so you cant tell me most of you don't bend the rules to get the job ! it's ok making these rules, but the people making them don't have to pay the cost's. What do you do ,Walk away and not earn anything.

 

[Marty92]

Get your head around Energy Efficiency Best Practice...

Returning to the OP.


There is no doubt in my mind that changing the cylinder in this case is "a good idea" and I'm sure it's in a BPG somewhere, but and it's a big but, I need to establish one way or the other if it actually a requirement, so far I can find nothing anywhere suggesting that it is.

 

[SafeGasInstall]

I am with you JTSplumbing

 

[hammers4spanner]

very true in this trade you simply cant know everything single bylaw/reg or whatever

 

[hammers4spanner]

if it gets you the workn not to put cylinder in then i would do it however in a written estimate state you should have an upgrade or offer to do it at later date .
Trades to tight at the mo to be to fussy , take a leaf out of gas safe book and ignore all perils over money

 

[Marty92]

very true in this trade you simply cant know everything single bylaw/reg or whatever

The current cost for all plumbing & gas related British standards is over £17k, the GSR subscription service is worth it's weight in gold!

 

[Marty92]

if it gets you the workn not to put cylinder in then i would do it however in a written estimate state you should have an upgrade or offer to do it at later date .
Trades to tight at the mo to be to fussy , take a leaf out of gas safe book and ignore all perils over money

Chances are ill get the work in any case, I was just trying to find out if it was indeed a requirement to change the cylinder.

 

[Barry98]

Your over ten posts now so send your gsr details to gasman or Redsaw so we can continue in the private forum away from public viewing , entry questions are basic for any competent engineer